tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18321208.post115508453623289168..comments2023-05-10T02:54:10.729-07:00Comments on Kunalians: FAKE Interview with John Piper and N.T. Wright Part 1Dan Chenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17220768836864625740noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18321208.post-47417095342902599652009-02-20T20:46:00.000-08:002009-02-20T20:46:00.000-08:00I think we have here the following problem: Peopl...I think we have here the following problem: People are taking justification, a mystery like all other mysteries in the Bible, and attempting to subject it to strict rational analysis or logic, and to reproduce it theologically with a kind of scientific accuracy that probably no one alive in the first century would have been familiar with, let alone attempted to use. I think, further, that Piper and yes, even Wright are included here. To safeguard against heterodoxy--as seen in the Roman Church's way of dealing with justification, it suffices to drive home the scriptures that deal directly with justification. Like too little thought, too much is dangerous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18321208.post-61158742334512952912007-10-19T07:59:00.000-07:002007-10-19T07:59:00.000-07:00This post is fantastic. Thanks for doing it!This post is fantastic. Thanks for doing it!Sharad Yadavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12150204571738424517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18321208.post-1155441566497270982006-08-12T20:59:00.000-07:002006-08-12T20:59:00.000-07:00Oh, but God does demand perfection! Jesus said "un...Oh, but God does demand perfection! Jesus said "unless your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharasees you can not enter heaven" (my weak paraphrase)<BR/><BR/>Only Jesus's righteousness meets God's Holy standard. Like Abraham, we who are sinful of our own doing, "believed God and it was counted to us as righteousness".<BR/><BR/>Christ's perfection is a gift appropriated by faith. The one who turns from his sin and toward God in saving faith is given eternal life, Christ's righteousness, Peace with God, and the whole Holy package is wrapped up in the person of Jesus himself, who comes to abide in us, by the person of the Holy Spirit.<BR/><BR/>The mystery of godliness is "Christ in you, the hope of glory".Royce Oglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244683471043477041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18321208.post-1155155994711821612006-08-09T13:39:00.000-07:002006-08-09T13:39:00.000-07:00PduggieGood questions. I am not sure I know the e...Pduggie<BR/><BR/>Good questions. I am not sure I know the exact answer in relationship to Wright.<BR/><BR/>But basically, I think Wright rejects the idea of imputed righteousness because he see no need for it, because he doesn't believe the covenant or law requires us to be perfect, but to be faithful, therefore when the Spirit changes our heart we become "righteous" in the sense that we are faithful, and therefore we don't need Christ's imputed righteousness.<BR/><BR/>Mark,<BR/><BR/>Do you know the exact answer to this?<BR/><BR/>Thanks,<BR/><BR/>DanDan Chenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17220768836864625740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18321208.post-1155146723244181372006-08-09T11:05:00.000-07:002006-08-09T11:05:00.000-07:00I'm just trying to tease out the active obedience ...I'm just trying to tease out the active obedience part of the standard picture of justification. Justification, a declaration that "you are righteous", depends traditionally, not just on one being aquited of sins, but posessing a positive moral character. <BR/><BR/>I'd think wright could confess that, since he speaks of Righteousness as conformity to the covenant: God is righteous when he acts in terms of the covenant he made. If we don't act in terms of covenant, and Jesus does 'for us', then isn't that part of the rightousness?<BR/><BR/>Wright is clear that we don't need an imputed moral status for justifcation, but do we need it for anything? For what? Is it part of Wright's regeneration?pdughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09832284495239324375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18321208.post-1155144749291314602006-08-09T10:32:00.000-07:002006-08-09T10:32:00.000-07:00Pduggie,I think Wright would say that present just...Pduggie,<BR/><BR/>I think Wright would say that present justifcation is based on Christ's objective accomplishment and by the Holy Spirit producing the Christian's faith in the Gospel (regeneration), the latter of course is not in the sense of "merit", but the necessary condition to recieve the blessings. <BR/><BR/>I do think Wright would God consider our "moral goodness" in present justification if you called that "goodness" a heart that trust the Gospel (regeneration), but not "moral goodness" in the sense of doing "good works" (reading your bible, and feeding the poor).<BR/><BR/>Wright states: "Likewise, secondly, justification presupposes the work of the Spirit, promised in the Old Testament as the one who would write God's law on the hearts of his new covenant people. Justification takes place on the basis of faith because true Christian faith— belief that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead —is the evidence of the work of the Spirit, and hence the evidence that the believer is already within the covenant. If a man believes this Gospel, his religious stance is clear. He can be neither Jew nor Greek, but only Christian"<BR/><BR/>He also writes: the doctrine of justification by faith is that all this is even now certain for those who believe in the Gospel; the experience of justification by faith is the steadfast looking away from oneself at the objective facts of incarnation and atonement, revealing as they do the unchanging and unshakeable love of God for his people. This is justification: because of the work of the Son and the Spirit, God pronounces in the present the future verdict of 'righteous' over all who believe. Irrespective of moral or racial background, believers are declared to belong for all eternity to the true people of Abraham, the family of the renewed covenant, the people whose sins are forgiven. [3]<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/><BR/>DanDan Chenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17220768836864625740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18321208.post-1155130553212581622006-08-09T06:35:00.000-07:002006-08-09T06:35:00.000-07:00Is wrigth saying, then, that a man is justified no...Is wrigth saying, then, that a man is justified now by having his sins dealt with, but without God considering his moral goodness or conformity to the demands of the law?pdughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09832284495239324375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18321208.post-1155127445223083362006-08-09T05:44:00.000-07:002006-08-09T05:44:00.000-07:00I can't wait for Part Two!I can't wait for Part Two!Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05311733931114002459noreply@blogger.com